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Thread: CMY Profile

  1. #1
    Junior Member Ferre_alex is on a distinguished road
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    CMY Profile

    I want to make a profile to convert files from CMYK to CMY. Anyone has an idea on how to do that?

  2. #2
    Donor mr.clean will become famous soon enough
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    Sure! ColorLogic ColorAnt is able to add, edit or remove the primaries in your measure data. Then you have to build a new profil and can create DeviceLinks for CMYK->CMY or you make a special setup at your Colorserver with both profiles! Greetings

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    PRC Member Kitaro will become famous soon enough
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    Hello,

    I'm not sure, if a correction of the measure data is the correct way. If you do so than you are modifying the color. What about dark tones with black?

    Better way will be a CMY-profile from the original measure data without any modifications. Heidelberg Color-Toolbox is able to create such a profile.

    Best regards

  4. #4
    Donor mr.clean will become famous soon enough
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    Of course! For Example import a ISOCoated profile into ColorAnt. Now you have the original measurement datas. Now delelte K, save datas and create a new profil only with CMY.

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    Donor mr.clean will become famous soon enough
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    P.S. When you send me your wanted original profile CMYK I can create a new CMY profile and send you both profiles. CMY and the DeviceLink for CMYK -> CMY. Standard settings or something special like digital printer or traditional?

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  8. #6
    PRC Member ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.clean View Post
    Of course! For Example import a ISOCoated profile into ColorAnt. Now you have the original measurement datas. Now delelte K, save datas and create a new profil only with CMY.
    Btw, it's a nice trick...
    Cheers,
    CW

  9. #7
    PRC Member Kitaro will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.clean View Post
    Of course! For Example import a ISOCoated profile into ColorAnt. Now you have the original measurement datas. Now delelte K, save datas and create a new profil only with CMY.
    I did it and found out that the darkest color in FOGRA39L without black channel will be in CMY 100/100/100 and this is in Lab 23/0/0. But in unmodified FOGRA39L there are many fields that are darker than that, e.g. in CMYK 100/100/100/80 which is in Lab 12,46/-0,86/2,71.

    Your trick in ColorAnt is really good and I didn't know it but I'm pretty sure, that this way doesn't work as expected. If you really want a color separation without black channel you need the unmodified characterization data and have to create a new profile only with CMY. The other way you lost to many colorspace in dark areas.

    Best regards

  10. #8
    Donor Shap will become famous soon enough
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    CMY is not enough to create dark "Black"

    C100+M100+Y100 are unable to create a really dark Black.
    The printing inks pigments are not pure enough.
    This is the primary reason why K is needed in 4 Colour Process printing in the first place.

  11. #9
    Donor mr.clean will become famous soon enough
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    You can edit, add or remove channels of the primaries. So you can edit the LAB values in your wanted way! http://onlinehelp.colorlogic.de/en/category/colorant-editing/

    And you are right! Without black it is nearly impossible the reach a dark impression ;-)

  12. #10
    PRC Member spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shap View Post
    C100+M100+Y100 are unable to create a really dark Black.
    The printing inks pigments are not pure enough.
    This is the primary reason why K is needed in 4 Colour Process printing in the first place.
    you are quite off topic!

    it was not the intention of the thread author to get really dark blacks!

    his task was to ommit the black channel and print only in CMY!

    it is obvious that you cant get the same color space if you reduce the number of ink channels.

    btw: the REALLY reason for printing pure black as an extra channel was NOT getting very dark image areas. the main purpose is to print black text with ONLY one color to avoid misregistration issues. in earlier days black printing ink was just a mixture of waste cyan magenta and yellow. there were no intense black pigments at all!

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  14. #11
    Donor Shap will become famous soon enough
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    Why Black ink is used in 4 Color Process printing

    Hello Spider,
    Sorry, but my understanding was that the discussion over the original topic evolved and spread a little.
    If my remark was too way-off I stand corrected.

    BTW, concerning the reason for printing the Black ink, you may also be in disagreement with Vikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMYK_color_model#Benefits_of_using_black_ink
    Quote:
    The "black" generated by mixing commercially practical cyan, magenta, and yellow inks is unsatisfactory, so four-color printing uses black ink in addition to the subtractive primaries...

  15. #12
    PRC Member spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shap View Post
    Hello Spider,
    Sorry, but my understanding was that the discussion over the original topic evolved and spread a little.
    If my remark was too way-off I stand corrected.

    BTW, concerning the reason for printing the Black ink, you may also be in disagreement with Vikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMYK_color_model#Benefits_of_using_black_ink
    Quote:

    eeeerrrrh, why dont you quote all aspects from wikipedia???

    • Text is typically printed in black and includes fine detail (such as serifs), so to reproduce text or other finely detailed outlines, without slight blurring, using three inks would require impractically accurate registration.
    • A combination of 100% cyan, magenta, and yellow inks soaks the paper with ink, making it slower to dry, causing bleeding, or (especially on cheap paper such as newsprint) weakening the paper so much that it tears.
    • Using black ink is less expensive than using the corresponding amounts of colored inks.
    these are the aspects i was talking about which were most important long time before color separation of photographs was invented.

    ages before cmyk halftone printing there were only colored illustrations + text!

  16. #13
    Donor Shap will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    ages before cmyk halftone printing there were only colored illustrations + text!
    Yes, that is correct.
    However, my post was referring explicitly to Black used in 4 Color Process printing.
    Last edited by Shap; 12-18-2017 at 01:08 AM.

  17. #14
    Junior Member Ferre_alex is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.clean View Post
    P.S. When you send me your wanted original profile CMYK I can create a new CMY profile and send you both profiles. CMY and the DeviceLink for CMYK -> CMY. Standard settings or something special like digital printer or traditional?
    Hi, I have access to colorant and copra. I will try to do as you say and check the results. I have a customer that wants to print on plastic using only CMY on a HUV offset printer. Mostly to print low quality stuff for political campaigns

  18. #15
    Junior Member guo5753 is on a distinguished road
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    It can be tested in Photoshop ucr/gcr ahead of time, and then to the ICC software.

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